Your understanding is correct. They would need to be manually cancelled in NinjaTrader or, if for some reason you were unable to connect you would need to call your broker and have them cancel the orders.
Your understanding is correct since the ATM logic that automatically moves your stop to breakeven is a function of NinjaTrader and not the broker/exchange servers.
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Hi Fat Tails, thanks for your detailed post on this earlier. Based on what you wrote and also Ninjatrader's comments it appears that the treatment of stops may not be the main issue.
It appears the stops are doing their job but the bigger issue is original targets that were not cancelled become naked buy orders once the stop has been triggered. This now explains the following issues I have experienced occasionally:
1. Gone to bed with overnight long positions with stops and targets.
2. While I was asleep at some point an outage occurred and during that time the stop triggered.
3. After the stop triggered the market spiked and triggered the original targets placing me in naked long positions.
4. Got up in the morning to see a big drop in the market with naked long positions underwater.
Based on all of this, it appears the only broker capable of protecting traders from this risk is IB. Of course the IB data feed is not the best but I saw your idea on another thread where you connect first with Kinect as the data feed and then connect using IB. This way you can get clean bid/ask data and then use IB to do the brokerage. People also complain about the poor IB customer service. Personally I have found them ok. Nothing great but ok. In any case I would prefer to have ok customer service and my risks protected than say another broker that has great customer service but I'm down $10k in the morning because their systems cannot mitigate trader risks by cancelling simple orders.
Obviously this is not an issue for people who sit at their screens throughout the duration of a trade as they can see the outage and make a decision what to do about it. This issue affects overnight and swing traders.
If you do this would you recommend the Kinect IB approach?
- Do you have errors whereby you put an order like 2 contracts short 6E through ninja but look in IB and find out it is 2 contracts long? ie Do you experience problems whereby the order entry from Ninja differs from the filled position between IB and the exchange?
- Are you satisfied with the fills and the fill prices from IB?
Are you trading stocks of futures? It's been a while, so I don't know if this is still the case, but I remember something like IB does not execute market orders outside of normal trading hours for stocks. So, if your stop is triggered in the middle of the night and turns into a market order, the resulting market order would not be executed and you will remain in that position until the next market open. I think they had some flags to allow triggers after market etc., but I could never get them to work.
The following user says Thank You to monpere for this post:
I am happy with the combination Kinetick/Interactive Brokers. All you need to do is to first-connect to Kinetick, then second-connect to IB. However, I prefer to trade in front of my screens and do not let any positions open overnight. And I do not have any experience with power outages, as the last power outage that I remember is over 20 years ago. We don't have them here very often.
But as you said, IB manages OCO orders via their servers, which is an advantage, if you are disconnected from your broker. The connection from IB servers to the exchange is pretty reliable. I remember that last year there was a breakdown of a transatlantic cable, and both my IP providers were not able anymore to connect to US servers. However, the datafeed / broker connection to CME via IB was not affected, as I was logged onto the Swiss server of IB, which were still safely connected to CME.
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Since you are away from your screen, I would recommend using a VPS ( contact @sam028 ) if you are not going to be in front of your screen. If you were in front of your screen, you would have been able to call your broker if you saw the outage.
I LOVE the IB thing with OCO and I couldn't bear to have it any other way.
Out in Bangkok we do have our fair share of internet/power outages, although it's been a while since I had one. My PC has done a few random reboots though and I don't even pick up the phone if it happens when I'm in a trade as I always have an OCO on for this very reason.
I know IB commissions aren't the best but it really is a trouble-free service in my opinion.
The following user says Thank You to DionysusToast for this post:
Thanks for the input guys that helps alot. I'm not too worried about commissions as I've cut down my number of trades by 80%. One annoying thing with IB is it logs you off every day. Then you have to shut down ninja trader and then start it back up again. Anyway of getting around this PITA anyone has found?