I look at some of these banks offering trading services, huge round turn commissions, is that because they are usually based around investment and deemed "full service" brokers? the other thing is I always hear is that banks themselves trade, how so? what do they use? charts? DOM? tape? what are their usual strategies? I hear of it but have never seen it.. mysterious entities indeed, so to those in the know, tell us about banks, they create money from nothing, but for us (non members of the Illuminati) that's an illegal practice, so we do the next best thing - create money from "money" via the same interbank system that (they) create the money into via commercial bank loans.

That ended a little off topic and into my own philosophy but heck it can stay there..

Most US Banks have both retail and commercial services. If your a retail trader and want to trade odd lots through them they will let you but they will charge you for it.

I see your in Australia. Did you know that MacQuarie have a large 100 person energy trading operation here in Houston?

I look at some of these banks offering trading services, huge round turn commissions, is that because they are usually based around investment and deemed "full service" brokers? the other thing is I always hear is that banks themselves trade, how so? what do they use? charts? DOM? tape? what are their usual strategies? I hear of it but have never seen it.. mysterious entities indeed, so to those in the know, tell us about banks, they create money from nothing, but for us (non members of the Illuminati) that's an illegal practice, so we do the next best thing - create money from "money" via the same interbank system that (they) create the money into via commercial bank loans.

That ended a little off topic and into my own philosophy but heck it can stay there..

Banks do not create money from nothing. Only a central bank can do that. All other banks 'create' money through legitimate deposits via fractional reserve banking.

Trading desks at a bank are not using the dom to scalp a few ticks here and there. They are the elephants in a market with hundreds of millions in assets, and in some cases they are making markets; as such, they move large size using conventional trading techniques based on short and long term fundamental economic views.

I read before that most bank trading desks actually, on balance, lose money but I'd have to rummage around to find that article.

And for some reason charge more than your typical AMP, Optimus, or Gain capital. I wonder what the reason for this is.. do they charge more for a round turn or is it just my imagination..?

I've recently switched to Macquarie bank, I wasn't aware, "Macquarie has overtaken Wall Street banks such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley to probably become the largest player in commodity trading revenue globally" - impressive and also crazy that they have a meteorologist in there to predict the weather, we should of just become meteorologists.

Trading desks at a bank are not using the dom to scalp a few ticks here and there. They are the elephants in a market with hundreds of millions in assets, and in some cases they are making markets; as such, they move large size using conventional trading techniques based on short and long term fundamental economic views.

I read before that most bank trading desks actually, on balance, lose money but I'd have to rummage around to find that article.

I should try to arrange a visit the trading floor, it's still quite mysterious.

I don't think it works through fractional reserve lending anymore here is why I say this, you're saying they are not creating money to the loanee but giving them other peoples money who have it "stored" in the bank and aren't using it however according to my research banks aren't doing this today, they are creating the money into the economy for the loanee and charging interest on it, their is interest owed on every dollar in the economy, the Australian system is similar in that fashion to the US system, I have an email response from the reserve bank of Australia stating this..

"The majority of money in the modern economy is created by commercial banks making loans, however the amount of money created in the economy ultimately depends on the monetary policy of the central bank, i.e. the Reserve Bank of Australia."

I've noted various sources claiming the privately owned "federal" reserve system operates in a similar way.

No, I'm saying that in terms of creating money out of nothing, which is what you originally asserted via your illuminati comment, only a central bank can do that. A commercial bank can certainly add to the money supply by lending money at interest that it has received as deposits less reserves but these loans are based on the premise of a deposit... not on nothing.

You are indeed correct Sir. Let's say the fractional reserve ratio is %10, I have $100 cash and because of that I will now create $1000 on my printing press and give it out to people via loans which they must pay back including interest, that is what a commercial bank does, our "differeces" are merely you call it, money created from a "deposit" and I call it money created from "nothing" - what if I forged $1000 right now and gave it to your hard working family member and they had to pay me back via their wage salary while I simply printed it? would you still call it money created from a deposit then? or would you get pissed and say "This bloody bastard is creating money from nothing!" I know what I would be saying, either way you are right so that's settled.

The thing I want to know is if the central banks govern the commercial banks I bet it owns them too, I bet if you try to start a commercial bank and do (this) you wouldn't be allowed to because "they" do it. CEO's are not owners, Shareholders are not owners, Dividend recievers are not owners, nobody knows who owns the banks, nobody knows who owns the federal reserve but notice how their are various layers as previously stated to make people think they know who owns it, "nobody owns it" or "shareholders own it" or "a democratic goverment own it" or "it's a Federal institution" (which is isn't.) etc.

Anyway, that said it sure is a beautiful day outside.